Conversations in the dark: BDSM vs Swingers

4someI had retired to bed around one in the AM. My husband soon followed me. Because I was still awake we began talking about nothing in particular but soon the conversation wound it’s way to the sexual and his recent ‘swinger’ revival.

In the dark my husband began to go on one of his rants – he has several well-rehearsed and valid complaints mind you but I have heard them all before, many times.  One logical rant turned into another and soon he was on the topic of kink. You see he does not have much respect for the whole BDSM thing, as he calls it, to him it is just a silly dress up game.

Perhaps because it was now approaching 2am or that I was in fact tired I resolved to let him verbalize his disappointments as I kept my head on my pillow.  “I just don’t understand why it is these people have invested so much time into a fantasy but none of them want to actually make it happen” he said. “I am not interested in someone that wants to be tied up or is doing this because their ‘master’ told them too” he huffed. I snickered a little and said the chances are pretty low that a Master, let alone many other men are willing to share their woman with another man.

“See that’s just it, everyone wants to sit down and say ‘eww swingers’ and then they go and physically hurt people because it is BDSM.  There are so many little fucking camps that everyone is in, they have no idea what to do to step out of them” he said, dangerously close to inspiring a response out of me. “I am not interested in humiliation or the whole Goth evil darkness worship bullshit” and with that he went silent. I could tell he was waiting for my rebuttal but none came.

He does this every now and then, not to burn my butt but he is trying to digest the fact that kink BDSM people are rarely interested in swinging – and swingers are just as judgmental as everyone else and want nothing to do with people they see as ‘risky’ or out of their own comfort zone.

“You are dealing with people and their relationships, not many of those guys have wives like yours, nor do many of those wives have a husband like mine. There is no easy answer, but as you said – why not have the profile on AFF, it is not as though it costs you anything” I said apathetically. I knew when he made it he was looking for something to happen sooner rather than later.

“ BDSM people that say that shit means more than swinging or more than sex are just fucking full of shit” he said. That was when I sat up on the bed.

“look, if you are frustrated I get that, but you need to remember that I am involved in BDSM and though you aren’t doing it with me, I have never said the stuff you are into is shit.  If you want to keep thinking of us all as kids playing dress up I will remind you that it was on a BDSM site where you met me, I flew in here to meet you. You met other people off that kink site as well – more than you have on the swingers’ site. So take care to not paint us all as false, fakes or lame when you have numbers proving otherwise under your belt” I knew I had taken the worm off the hook.

“Right, because hurting people and whatever else it is you do isn’t sex. Pfft ” he said.

“Do you want to know the truth?” I said into the dark but turning myself towards where he sat.

“Oh sure enlighten me” he said.

“I don’t understand why people who want to fuck other people just can’t go out and do that, and that all swinging is to me; men and woman who want to fuck someone other than their old man or old woman. So why is it, and not just women but couples now demands we respect them in the morning and try to turn it into a dating situation? Why is that swingers are so much more in touch with sexual gratification than someone who enjoys being tied up and taken advantage of?”

“Do you want to know why swingers are ‘ewww’ to me – midlife crisis of marriage and the facts of high STD rates amongst people your age, most of whom are oblivious to HepC aside – there is no grace and no ritual to swinging and there is a ton of it in BDSM for me and I am good at it. So if you have a problem with us kinky people being clear with what it is we do, what we like and hurting someone the way they enjoy and want- because it is a talent, we don’t just throw them up against a wall – don’t be a part of it. But don’t blame us kinky people because you can’t get your dick wet with another couple who said they were swingers and turned out to be all philosophical about it like kink people. What you fail to see is that you are pretty much saying swingers are supposed to be easy, that they just give it up to other horny couples, and just get together to fuck but they are now putting little individual sexually defining caveats to their play and you aren’t buying it” I said all this with a bit of my Mistress Pyx voice as though I were out to defend myself and BDSM but I do not like it when he gets in a snit and goes after what he knows I thrive in.

“this isn’t about me getting my dick wet but you’re right I am not buying into much of any of this especially the idea that BDSM isn’t sex and that it means more than what swingers do together” he said.

“It isn’t always sex, it is however sexual but I didn’t fuck anything I beat. So for me it means more than just getting together with another couple to fuck. Swingers have bars where they go specifically to fuck, then shower and go home. They don’t care about sexual subtlety and often lack a certain grace – some class. Maybe that is because they are all there for the exact same thing – it is about getting fucked. I can appreciate that for what it is, but you are trying to fit an apple into an orange or just say all this to piss me off and it’s not going to work” I laughed.

“How does humiliation make sex special” he said.

In the darkness of the room a hard smug white smile take over my face, I had 3 seconds to think carefully if I was going to say what I wanted to say because surely there is no way for me to take it back and it could, and has before, lead him to more frustration. He hates it when I am right, has admitted such, and at this very moment I was about to be so again.

“I don’t know D, I have never sought out to be humiliated during sex but you could answer that question yourself having been the man who on several occasions entered a couple’s home in the middle of the night with a mask on to fuck a woman tied up and blindfolded to a bed” That spear hit it’s target.

He stood up and paced for a moment: the reality that the couple was from a kink site and he could not argue with the fact that being tied up and blindfolded while fucked by a stranger your husband chose is nothing less than humiliating.

“It might have just been a chance for you to fuck someone but surely you put the mask on. I bet you got hard thinking of her tied up, unable to see you, her vulnerability, only her ears able to give her warning you even walked into the room. How you and her husband plotted against her and she had no choice in the matter. I have a hard time believing that you of all people cannot appreciate the visual stimulation of humiliation when it is often the very subject of porn you watch; forced against her will? The sheer violence portrayed in some of those videos I mean talk about violation. You were a part of that couple’s fantasy of humiliation/violation so don’t tell me you can’t understand it. I mean that is pretty kinky shit D”

One hit is never good enough, but surely if I was beginning to feel as though I were under attack, my sexuality, it was now time to fight rather than take flight! Okay I will say it: I do not like it when MEN tell me about women and our sexuality and I certainly do not appreciate the duplicity that comes from men and their sexual hubris when I feel as though I am being told I should be ashamed of mine or that mine is just a dress up game.  The very same sexuality my husband seeks to take advantage of in adult bookstores, swingers parties and threesomes with strangers are kink based but this now also the splinter in his paw.

He has a physical visceral reaction to me having made the point and hearing him walk around the room in the dark was enough for me. I put my head back down on my pillow. Sometimes I let him get away with the stupid shit he says, other times I don’t and as I looked over at the alarm clock it was now close to four AM and I simply wanted to sleep.

He rambled on for a bit longer and then finally lay down beside me in bed. “I don’t ever humiliate you like that, I mean it is not something our sex involves and not something I ever want to do” he said quietly. “I don’t feel that you do but stop telling me I am full of shit when you bitch about kink just because you don’t get it doesn’t mean it isn’t valid. It is why I am the way I am” I whispered.

I lightly pushed him over onto his back and climbed on top of him to have sex. His cock was ready and I am sure it was the memory of the woman tied to the bed that helped.  I kept my mouth shut and didn’t ask if this position was too kinky for him – he’s not always the most appreciative of my humour after being defeated.

6 comments on “Conversations in the dark: BDSM vs Swingers

  1. kdaddy23 says:

    That sure was an interesting conversation! I do know a couple of couples who are into BDSM and are swingers but I always felt they were more the exception than the rule. I liked what you said about swinging lacking grace and ritual even though it really doesn’t lack these things – it’s just very hard to see them with all the bullshit that usually surrounds swinging.

    Thanks for sharing this with us!

    • Pyx says:

      Yes we have some really good talks over here – and nothing is off the table. I think you would have fun at the table.

      I think you are correct, the Kink/Swinger couples are rare, though I have seen a few around – they too seem to keep this separate: BDSM activities with kink people or each other and swinger style with the like mind swingers who are not into BDSM. I have not yet seen a BDSM couple full on with a swinger couple.

      I do not think swingers lack grace and ritual within the couple – with each other – however I yet to see it when approaching each other, so far in my experience I have met the ‘let’s get down to fucking’ ‘it doesn’t matter who you are just fuck my husband/wife’ sort of couple or the ‘we need to wooed and date us’ type.

      And perhaps in my own kinky BDSM mind, there will always be something lacking with swinging group – skipping over the subtle art of tease and play the pushing of boundaries (not our own or our partners but a perfect stranger) but I suppose that is a most defining truth about swingers and kink.

      BDSM is usually one on one whereas swingers are not: one does translate as more intimate to me and the other sexual group entertainment. Both have merit but he can be so stubborn!

      • kdaddy23 says:

        Oh, what would I give to actually sit with y’all and participate in such conversations! See, in my mind, a lot of swingers are crude and rude and the art of seduction is rarely put to use or, as in most cases, is held in reserve for their particular partner because it’s too intimate.

        I could rant and rave about this mindset for days on end and more so if I have access to some coffee.

        In swinging, there are few rules at the high level and whatever ritual there is winds up being dependent on what rules the couple has for themselves and how they related to playing with others. BDSM, on the other hand – and as I understand it in my limited way – is very regimented and that if you really don’t understand what you’re about to get yourself into – and because it’s not what you think it is – then you’re better off not even going there because since the loss of life in this is a reality, the rules and rituals must be upheld and enforced at every turn, both from a dominant’s side as well as the submissive’s.

        Swinging is actually a lot more one-on-one that you think and it’s rarely as interactive as it could be; you might have a lot of people in a bed having sex… but everyone isn’t having sex with everyone present or, as I like to say, it’s rarely a free-for-all and the kind where everyone is fair game… but that’s just my opinion.

        So despite the number of people in attendance, it still comes down to a guy doing another guy’s wife while the other guy is doing his; threesomes are a different animal in this setting.

        Yeah, I’d love sitting at the table during such conversations!

      • Pyx says:

        Exactly – your opening statement echoes my experiences so far and certainly given the number of people involved you are correct in saying that swinging is a group effort but there is some one on one going on. Unlike some people we aren’t out looking for a perfect match (whatever that means) and we aren’t completely about looks (being presentable and able to look at them is a must) but when it comes down to it, my husband will have to admit not only to me but to himself that my BDSM experience is what allows me to move seamlessly within these circles.

        I can almost forgive the rude and crude couples as people who mean business: they get straight to meeting and fucking, but I fear that the later has not yet happened in my experience. Don’t get me wrong there is a lot of risk putting your wife out there but so is the other guy – you would think there would be some sort of understanding right off, if not a bond.

        And I will give swingers credit for this: it can go beyond the physical with a bit of mental foreplay involved but I have yet to see it myself. My husband isn’t clear if his issue is with the fact that more couples he is running into seem to want this sort of context in their swinging: more than just fucking. It is why I think he comes out with blame on BDSM – and yes he likes to poke some at me – but he is certainly held to a high standard here and will have to explain himself better.

        Being 20 years my senior he came to me with a metric buttload of experience, that I yet have to do, and it is one of the reasons we get along so well. He isn’t misleading me when he says it is not about his dick getting wet, he is being honest, what he has yet to put into words is: he is doing this because he wants to be entertained and that it all depends on these people to show up.

        Why I was not looking forward to once again being on AFF, he gets frustrated so I do my best to not take it personally.

        Lots of coffee is needed to blog these days!

  2. PC says:

    To string together a couple of quotes
    “There are so many little fucking camps that everyone is in, they have no idea what to do to step out of them. I am not interested in humiliation or the whole Goth evil darkness worship bullshit.”

    Which in two sentence covers just about my whole opinion indirectly. The first sentence is telling no matter what one’s sexual mores are. Whether it’s a missionary, once a month, under the covers with the light out, just to procreate or the wildest kink with nameless masked partners there’s a tendency for people to form little groups. Especially when they are small groups they tend to be more homogeneous as they bond against the norm. Jumping out of the big box they end up in a smaller box. There’s some tendency for those boxes to pull the flaps down over themselves. Smaller groups make group think easier in some ways. Let’s not kid ourselves either there are those that intentionally jump to smaller societal groups less because of wanting to live differently and more because of wanting to live in a group where they can be of higher status. To really mix metaphors, The think outside of the box, and in another more restrictive box, not because the grass is greener, but because what they really wanted was to be the big fish in that small pond…er box. (There metaphors…one sentence!!!)

    Which leads to the second sentence. It’s a statement of D’s preferences. (Ok mixed with …maybe… just a touch… of emotionally loaded sharing about others preferences in his frustration. ) Aside from the big fish in small boxes, most who gravitate towards non-standard sexual mores have a value in people pursuing things that make them happy without hurting others. The challenge is trying to be accepting of those who’s pursuit takes them to areas we don’t understand. The freedom to be yourself doesn’t always cross into acceptance of others having the same freedom. That freedom still seems like something most outside the mainstream would agree on if they really stopped to both think and express what mattered most to them. I value that freedom for other even when it’s not something I’m interested in. I value it even when I am pretty sure they aren’t on the path to their own happiness thanks to bad decisions.

    None of that reduces frustration when you’re dealing with emotionally stunted, insecure people that have decision making disorders in the way of your own pursuit. We do after all have to deal with the reality instead of the simple high minded concepts until all kink subgroups can be visited by …

    Team America. Sexual freedom – America, fuck yeah!

    • Pyx says:

      It will cost you a buck o five! Actually you should pay me for having to read all those metaphors in one sentence!

      I agree and understand what you are both saying, I certainly do not want titles or roles applied to me but even when I was actively involved in kink I hated little groups – but my husband isn’t exactly able to step out of his little box either. Not sure that came through. His stated preference might reflect him now but as I said, it was not always so; he overlooks that we aren’t all him and have gotten to check shit off our lists and yes, some of the couples we meet do want to go slow and not get naked right away.

      So they try and communicate that via some group mentality – I guess even swingers have their hardcore, gangbang, full swap and soft swap lines – they do put themselves in this box. Now if they stay there happy forever or if it is just an introduction box I don’t know but I have been around kinky people long enough – swingers not so much. But how else are people who might not have the experience under their belt be able to tell other people (who perhaps have the experience) what they are ready for if they don’t explain it and with other peoples words?

      I don’t take it personally, I don’t like it and you know me best I do laugh and think it is lame but you are right they are trying best to deal with a reality but trying to do it before that reality happens: there is no logical way we can prepare ourselves for a bad outcome with kink/swapping but we believe we can with clever words and groups who we think understand us. ???

      I believe that people who I do not agree with have the same freedoms I have and want – hell who am I to judge? But certainly we can also understand why it is they say NO to the rest of us or in this situation couples like us. I get it, they want someone that they believe will fit in that box because it is less work, and they wouldn’t have to deal with people calling them on their shit either; it is comfortable. For some people I cannot fault them for that.

      Just because these couples are on a swinger site doesn’t mean they are – and if he isn’t a swinger, he isn’t kink and he is not doing all these things to get his dick wet, yes does make it hard for me to explain to someone else how exactly he fits in with all this: WTF!?

      He is in it to be entertained? And there is no label for that or a way I could explain that to someone else, who might be looking for something more than entertaining him, and not have them feel uncomfortable.

      Labels (boxes) suck but the language allows us to feel out other people. The worst thing in the world is to trust someone with a secret and have them dislike you or think you are a sicko – so as much as I hate titles, roles, and these fucking groups, I can appreciate them a little: if this was all new to me and I came about it online, today, I would not even be able to begin to figure out where it is I want to fit in (without harming myself or my husband) or how to tell other people in their box that I want to come visit but might not be down for the box being closed in on me.

      I don’t want people to think that we are saying ‘come over here we know the way’ because we don’t but his impatience isnt exactly well hidden – and yes instead of just saying so he attacks my kink because he knows he can.

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